Remove overplayed maps

[Sheep_Wizard 183]

So I have been playing deathrun quite a lot recently and the same maps get played over and over and its really boring. Im not sure what all the maps are on the current rotation but a lot of them never get played as if one of the overplayed maps is up for vote everyone picks it.

 

Anyway I feel these maps should be removed for a period of time due to being overplayed:

Underworld

Watercity

framey_v2

bricky

dragonaball

epicfail

skypillar

pool

semtex

slay_v2

 

You may agree of disagree with these but they're just a few maps that feel are always being played.

 

Also maybe a better voting system that doesnt show the maps that have been played for the last 5-10 games?

[Purity 288]

There was, recently, a map vote for the maps that were being kept / added.

 

So the community already voted for which maps they wanted, and the ones they didnt have already been removed from rotation.

[Sentrex 785]

Not remove, maybe add a cap on them.

 

Like you can only play it once every two hours or something?

[Sheep_Wizard 183]

There was, recently, a map vote for the maps that were being kept / added.

 

So the community already voted for which maps they wanted, and the ones they didnt have already been removed from rotation.

I know but they still play the same maps over and over, you wouldn't even notice new maps were added

[Darmuh 1090]

Would be too early to change up the rotation again by removing maps. That doesn't necessarily solve the problem either.

Remove overplayed maps and other maps will become overplayed.

It's a flaw in the rotation system that I never could fix and no one else bothered trying to work on it. I'm sure someone much more clever than me could find a solution however.

In my opinion though, what makes maps overplayed is that you have to play the same map 10 rounds in a row with each round maxing out at 2-3 minutes. Sure, for short maps like pool it doesn't really matter but the majority of the maps you made mention of are fairly long. So you end up playing each map at hours at a time. I really think the server would benefit in lowering the round count from 11 (including practice round) to 8 or lower (lower being better in my opinion). Because with how long it takes to finish 10 rounds just about any map can be considered overplayed if you play it more than twice a day.

That's my opinion, and I certainly don't think it's a popular one. But I still think if the server tried it for a day, it'd be a much more pleasant experience than the current one.

 

tl;dr - fak u read the whole thing :dave:

[Purity 288]

Would be too early to change up the rotation again by removing maps. That doesn't necessarily solve the problem either.

Remove overplayed maps and other maps will become overplayed.

It's a flaw in the rotation system that I never could fix and no one else bothered trying to work on it. I'm sure someone much more clever than me could find a solution however.

In my opinion though, what makes maps overplayed is that you have to play the same map 10 rounds in a row with each round maxing out at 2-3 minutes. Sure, for short maps like pool it doesn't really matter but the majority of the maps you made mention of are fairly long. So you end up playing each map at hours at a time. I really think the server would benefit in lowering the round count from 11 (including practice round) to 8 or lower (lower being better in my opinion). Because with how long it takes to finish 10 rounds just about any map can be considered overplayed if you play it more than twice a day.

That's my opinion, and I certainly don't think it's a popular one. But I still think if the server tried it for a day, it'd be a much more pleasant experience than the current one.

 

tl;dr - fak u read the whole thing :dave:

 

I think this argument has already been discussed many times and no answer/solution was found.

 

IMO, 10 rounds is enough, its a balance for small fast maps and longer maps. But i see where you and others come from, sometimes the long maps can be extremely time consuming, but hey, deal with it :dave: 

[Darmuh 1090]

I think this argument has already been discussed many times and no answer/solution was found.

Link? I haven't once seen it discussed here on these forums in any topic. Nor have we ever had a trial period in testing lower round counts. In fact, since raid has started the round count has never changed. It's always been 10 activator rounds and 1 practice round. Even in the weird 1 year anniversary edit the round count remained the same.

 

IMO, 10 rounds is enough, its a balance for small fast maps and longer maps. But i see where you and others come from, sometimes the long maps can be extremely time consuming, but hey, deal with it :dave:

 

Except it's hardly a balance. There's maybe 5-10 small fast maps, where as the rest of the maps are from medium length to un-fucking-believably long.

The best way to determine balance is to test. Lowering the round count may yield some surprisingly good results. Or, as you assume, we may be better off with the rounds as it is.

Point is, you have to try something before you can claim it is bad. And since overplayed maps is a recurring problem since 2012 and beyond, thinking outside the box and trying new things might help find a better solution. This is how we originally came up with raid and it's features to begin with.

As I said in my original post, removing maps will not solve the overplayed maps problem. It just creates different "overplayed" maps. And that's not a problem you should be happy with or accept.

[Synd 309]

I'm sure somebody could make a script to have a list of maps that have a smaller amount of rounds. For example, maps like pool might have 11, but then you play a map like dragonball, which is on the list in the script, and it only has 6 or 7.

[Spencer 87]

If any were taken out, i'd want it to be these ones.

 

Underworld

Watercity

framey_v2

bricky

dragonaball

epicfail

skypillar

pool

[Sentrex 785]

I'm sure somebody could make a script to have a list of maps that have a smaller amount of rounds. For example, maps like pool might have 11, but then you play a map like dragonball, which is on the list in the script, and it only has 6 or 7.

That's actually a very good idea, and very easy to do (I believe).

IF mapname = this THEN

SetdvarRounds to this

[Sheep_Wizard 183]

That's actually a very good idea, and very easy to do (I believe).

IF mapname = this THEN

SetdvarRounds to this

I think this is a good idea.

 

Also if you look at the the _mapvoting.gsc from 3xp it appears to check to see the last 8 maps played and does not add these to the voting list. Possible a system like this would also help stop certain maps being overplayed.

[~Budzy~ 661]

doesn't matter what you do you cant win, as people have said, remove overplayed maps, people moan, you loose players OR new maps become over played,

 

you change up the rotation and keep these overplay maps, they still get over played, 

 

third option, people could stop making shitty ass maps and then raid could get more 

[Lossy 1968]

There ~60 maps on the rotation

 

There ~20 over played maps, not really a easy thing to solve.

 

Overplayed maps on rotation

 

Saw

Shipment

Watercity

Bricky

Diehard

Framey_v2

Skypillar

Pool

Slay_v2

Dragonball

Semtex

Bounce

Indipyramid

 

and some more.

 

Doesn't matter if we make the rounds shorter or longer based on the maps, if we have it check the last so X amount of maps played. These common maps will always be on.

 

If we remove these maps the server will become dead. Raid can't run on dead servers and deathrun is raid most popular server which we can't afford to destory.

 

But i agree, it's annoying to play on these maps but Raid, FNRP and VC are the only servers that has a mix of selected maps compared to other servers where 1 map is played ~13% of the time

 

Wish to not play these maps all the time? encourage other players to play on different maps.

[OwO 110]

I'm a big fan of an idea about making rotation instead of voting system.
And I liked the way AR51 did - main admin (cuba or S7) changing rotation every month so the maps weren't overplayed that much

[Lossy 1968]

There 6 different rotations with 10 maps each that all get selected randomly

[zander ◔◡◔ 125]

I have a suggestion, but it might be awful; hear me out.

An alternate approach would be to keep everything as it is, but adding a system enticing people to choose alternate maps, while still giving them a choice to play the overplayed maps. Such a system would avoid making Raid the bad guy, as the players have opted for the alternate map instead of the overplayed one, despite having been given the choice - i.e. they've made the decision themselves.

How the system might work

The system would operate over an arbitrary number of games, let's say 10 games (one cycle)

For simplicity, imagine there are 5 maps in the rotation: overplayed1 (op1), overplayed2 (op2), alternate1 (a1), alternate2 (a2), alternate3 (a3)

The system starts and the order is:

op1, op2, op1, a2, op2, a3, op1, a1, a3, op2

The number of times each map has been selected over one cycle of the system is

op1: 3

op2: 3

a1: 1

a2: 1

a3: 2

total: 10

From this, the system can identify that op1 and op2 are 'overplayed', a1 and a2 are 'underplayed', and a3 is 'in the middle'.

At the end of game 10, players are given the choice of 4 maps to choose from:

a1, a2, a3, op1 (not op2 because it was the last map played)

However, (this is where the real magic of the system comes into play) having identified a1, a2 as 'underplayed' and op1 as 'overplayed', the system weights them by altering the xp received. An 'underplayed' map gives players x1.25 xp, whereas an overplayed map gives players x0.75 xp. The players are provided with this information during the voting period to sway their decision.

For example,

Choice #1: a1 - underplayed - x1.25 xp

Choice #2: a2 - underplayed - x1.25 xp

Choice #3: a3 - in the middle - x1 xp

Choice #4: op1 - overplayed - x0.75xp

The idea of this is to deter people from picking the overplayed map as they won't receive as much xp, but they are still given the option so Raid isn't made out to be the 'bad guy' by completely removing such maps. Rather, they will be enticed into choosing underplayed maps in the hope of gaining additional xp (and thus will be enticed into continue playing on Raid and not switching servers).

From this point there are three outcomes:

#1 The system is successful: a1 or a2 has been selected (Let's say a1).

As the system has been set to work over 10 games, the last 10 games were on:

op2, op1, a2, op2, a3, op1, a1, a3, op2, a1

op1: 2

op2: 3

a1: 2

a2: 1

a3: 2

total: 10

Now the underplayed map(s) are: a2. The overplayed map(s) are: op2. The 'in the middle' maps are: op1, a1, a3.

The voting options:

Choice #1: a2 - underplayed - x1.25 xp

Choice #2: a3 - in the middle - x1 xp

Choice #3: op1 - in the middle - x1 xp

Choice #4: op2 - overplayed - x0.75xp

The cycle then repeats

#2 The system is unsuccessful: op1 is selected

The system continues as in #1

#3 An average played map is selected: a3 is chosen

The system continues as in #1

A concern with this system is those who are already level 80, who won't be concerned with the xp multiplier. However, as has been pointed out in another thread, there are only ~6 people who are level 80 so this should have very minimal impact on the efficient working of the system.

I know the numbers used aren't reflective of the actual figures, but this was for simplicity. The system can be applied for any number maps.

I hope I've explained myself well enough. If there's anything that isn't understood, I'd happily answer any questions on it. I also understand that such a system could be quite tricky to implement (or not...)

tl;dr - fak u read the whole thing :dave:

[Sentrex 785]

Porkchop,

 

At first when I read through you system I thought it was a silly idea to be honest, xp relative to how much a map is played seemed to not sit right with me.

 

However, the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. I really like the idea!

 

It's a good compromise and a well thought out system, extremely well explained too.

 

I say yes to this system being developed. (I'd like to offer myself as someone who could help develop this if you need help)

[~Budzy~ 661]

people only want to go for time records now day anyway 

[SweetJuice 0]

Why not just remove some of the maps from the rotation temporarily, I see maps I've never played before pop up and then everyone screams in the chat Framey or some other overplayed map. Also remove highrise and Twitch, everyone just leaves anyway. 

[zander ◔◡◔ 125]

Why not just remove some of the maps from the rotation temporarily, I see maps I've never played before pop up and then everyone screams in the chat Framey or some other overplayed map.

That's been tried over the years to no avail. Remove overplayed maps, others fill the void.

We must remember that these maps are overplayed because they're popular and well liked; nothing stops people from joining another server if their favourite map is removed from the rotation.

My aforementioned idea could be the middle ground we need.

[Darmuh 1090]

Looking through old xfire screenshots and remembered this REALLY old project back when I was a dev/leader of Rv (a little before Raid was created). Rv was another deathrun server which rather than having a map vote, they had a set rotation. While this was good in eliminating overplayed maps, it was really boring playing on the server because the same maps would usually be played around the same time each day and it became way too repetitive. So, since Fiddle (the creator of Rv) was completely against a map vote I worked to try and find middle ground in doing the following.

 

Rather than a map vote or a set rotation, there was a vote on whether players wanted to play the next map in the rotation, or a random unknown map from the whole rotation. This way, if everyone agreed the next map was not a map they wanted to play rather than leave the server or play a map they didnt want to, it would play a random map in the rotation.

 

The problem with this was that after you chose a random map, it bugged the rotation and b3 would give a different map than the map the "Next Map" vote resulted in. It was also a bug that did not happen every time and I couldn't figure out the circumstance it occurred in. It was just too random.

 

 

So, if anyone would like to try and complete what I failed to(there was a lot of that), I highly suggest trying this out. Either this or 's idea that is. :davesir:

[~Budzy~ 661]

omg please, make this a fucking thing 

 

but instead of a person doing@ map or what ever it should auto display the next map or some shit in either the rotation or chat 

[Darmuh 1090]

omg please, make this a fucking thing 

 

but instead of a person doing@ map or what ever it should auto display the next map or some shit in either the rotation or chat 

I definitely agree instead of "Next Map" it should say the actual map name. Since I only worked on that for a week or so (left Rv fairly soon after I started working on this) I kind of forgot about it. It was only today after I downloaded my old xfire screenshots that I was looking through and saw it. It would definitely have been easier to debug if the vote option displayed the map name, that way I wouldnt have to actually load each map over and over xD

Anyway, I don't think I could ever do this even if I did still play cod4 religiously(srry csgo took my life). This is work for those of you who are much smarter than me :)

 

*cough* *cough* *cough* mikey *cough* lossy *cough* beatiboi *cough* sentrex *cough* slaya *cough* bear *cough* braxi *cough* *cough* *cough*

 

And I do think this is one of if not THE most important issue that plagues deathrun today. Finding a solution for the most complained about problem in deathrun since it's inception should have priority over things like new skins, models, ranks, or whatever. Kind of like how everyone complains to valve for adding music kits to csgo when hitboxes are fucked. Work on the core game (or mod in this case) first, add extra stuff later.

 

/* sorry for the rant */

 

:dave:

[Sentrex 785]

*cough* *cough* *cough* mikey *cough* lossy *cough* beatiboi *cough* sentrex *cough* slaya *cough* bear *cough* braxi *cough* *cough* *cough*

I feel kinda honoured to be included in this list, if no one else more experienced than me wants to do this then I'll happily give it a shot!

[Cat 290]

I definitely agree instead of "Next Map" it should say the actual map name. Since I only worked on that for a week or so (left Rv fairly soon after I started working on this) I kind of forgot about it. It was only today after I downloaded my old xfire screenshots that I was looking through and saw it. It would definitely have been easier to debug if the vote option displayed the map name, that way I wouldnt have to actually load each map over and over xD

Anyway, I don't think I could ever do this even if I did still play cod4 religiously(srry csgo took my life). This is work for those of you who are much smarter than me :)

 

*cough* *cough* *cough* mikey *cough* lossy *cough* beatiboi *cough* sentrex *cough* slaya *cough* bear *cough* braxi *cough* *cough* *cough*

 

And I do think this is one of if not THE most important issue that plagues deathrun today. Finding a solution for the most complained about problem in deathrun since it's inception should have priority over things like new skins, models, ranks, or whatever. Kind of like how everyone complains to valve for adding music kits to csgo when hitboxes are fucked. Work on the core game (or mod in this case) first, add extra stuff later.

 

/* sorry for the rant */

 

:dave:

 

 

I feel kinda honoured to be included in this list, if no one else more experienced than me wants to do this then I'll happily give it a shot!

 

 

Hell if I remember correctly we were pretty close to finishing it in the first place, I think it was just the B3 issue we ran into having it display the wrong map in the rotation. 

 

@@Sentrex I was working on it a little bit when we first started it, I'd love to help you finish it with you if you'd allow me to do so.